I’m Pretty Sure Rick Santorum Lied to My Face on Friday

by Matt B. on January 8, 2012

I was in Manchester, NH for one of Santorum’s “Faith, Family, and Freedom” town hall meetings. As the event was getting underway, I asked Bill Boyd, one of Santorum’s spokesmen, about an event earlier in the day in which college students in Concord had confronted the senator about his views on sexuality. With the country moving away from Santorum on LGBT rights, how did the Senator hope to reach his fellow Americans on these issues?

Boyd remarked that Santorum is tolerant of other views, and that he hopes Americans will extend Santorum the same courtesy and respect. “But the Senator has compared loving homosexual relationships to bestiality,” I remarked. Boyd apologized; he wasn’t “informed about that quote.”

As the event wound down, I started to ask Santorum the same question. He broke in – “Read the quote.” He hadn’t compared the two, he claimed.

I was bewildered. Of course he has – it’s well-documented. How is this even up for debate? I pressed back, but he wasn’t having any of it. “Read the quote.” One of his staffers turned to me, and with the sanctimonious expression of a parent reprimanding a child, exhorted me to do the same.

I felt embarrassed. Had I misremembered the quote? Worse, had I swallowed some leftist propaganda about the guy and then thrown it at his feet?

So I sat down and re-read the quote. It’s from a 2003 interview with USA Today, and while the entire second half of the transcript is illuminating, the most damning quote is this:

“In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That’s not to pick on homosexuality. It’s not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It is one thing.”

I then stumbled across an interview from a couple of days ago, in which Santorum denies that he was associating homosexuality with pedophilia or bestiality. CNN’s John King reads the quote to Santorum, and Santorum responds: “Hold on one second, John. Read the quote. I said it’s not. I didn’t say it is. I did not connect them. I specifically excluded them.”

In other words, Santorum is claiming that the “It’s not” is meant to distinguish homosexuality from “man on child” and “man on dog.” He wasn’t equating homosexuality with pedophilia or bestiality, he says. He was separating the two.

But of course, that’s not what he was doing. If you read the whole interview, (or any number of other Santorum quotes) you’ll see that he’s not shy about his views on homosexuality. In his world, there is one acceptable kind of sex – between a married man and woman – and everything else is dangerous and unacceptable.

More galling, though, is his attempt to re-parse this quote now that he’s running for president. Because of course, his re-reading of the quote makes little sense. Take another look:

“In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That’s not to pick on homosexuality. It’s not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It is one thing.”

The “It’s not” here doesn’t refer to “homosexuality.” It refers to “the definition of marriage.” Follow it through: The definition of marriage is not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. The definition of marriage is one thing.

At one level, none of this matters. Santorum’s disdain for homosexuality is clear, and I doubt many voters are going to weigh their support for him based on whether he actually equated gay Americans with people who have sex with dogs.

On the other hand, that’s what he did, and nobody should let him get away with pretending otherwise.

  • Guest

    Hey, if Santorum wants to claim that the quote involved a bewildering misuse of pronoun reference in his native language, that’s his business.  No one can be expected to have a consistent position on an issue and make clear statements about it, that’s just ridiculous.

  • Matt

    :)

  • Guest

    As a public figure, they need to explain themselves on any topic and their viewpoint, not avoid the question.

  • Asdf

    He tried to debate whether or not he said “black people”, said that he said “blah people”.

  • Totallyconsumed

    I think you’re over-scrutinizing an off-the-cuff remark he made nearly a decade ago.

  • Garinsdad

    While he should clarify his remarks and beliefs, philosophically the idea of tolerance sounds nice, but just about no one ever practices it…especially those who scream the loudest for it.

    Any politician ought to simply say, “here is where I stand” on an issue and let the chips fall where they may.  be a person of principle.  But when you have this group demanding their way, and that group demanding theirs…it becomes a joke. 

    Here are five words that everyone ought to take to heart and live by: “but I might be wrong.” 

    Is it wrong to have strong opinions on things?  absolutely not.  But to demand that everyone believes your way or gives in to your way is simply ignorant and arrogant.  Have an opinion about something (whether homosexuality, the economy, faith, etc.).  Have strong opinions.  But also have humility.  And always be willing to say,

    “This is what I believe…but I might be wrong.”

  • http://thewheatandchaff.com Matt Bieber

    Thanks for your thoughts, Totallyconsumed. To my mind, this seems relevant given his ongoing anti-LGBT statements during this year’s presidential campaign. 

    I’m not sure this is over-scrutinizing, either. “The Associated Press reported Santorum was offered an opportunity to explain his comments prior to the publishing of the interview – he refused to do so and replied, “I can’t deny that I said it, and I can’t deny that’s how I feel.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum_controversy_regarding_homosexuality – see the “Defense of the Remarks” section)

  • http://thewheatandchaff.com Matt Bieber

    Amen to humility, Garinsdad!

  • Anonymous

    Get larger print for comments I can not even see them

  • http://thewheatandchaff.com Matt Bieber

    Sorry, fesambay! I think you can increase the display size on your browser. On a Mac it’s command and the “+” key.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-Ash/1237863605 Matthew Ash

    How can someone who is trying to be President be so bold in calling out a group and saying it’s wrong but I can still be president? Would anyone elect someone who is in the KKK even though those are just his views? Point is if you said it you said it stand your ground on it and eather reep the rewards or go down in flames.Flip flopping never gets you anywhere.

  • http://thewheatandchaff.com Matt Bieber

    That’s what I wanted to know – how he could hope to represent them and have a relationship with them after having said those things about them. Honestly, I’d prefer a (genuine) flip-flop on this from him, because his current view is unkind and unproductive.

  • Guest

    Why should he have to explain himself over and over again to stupid people?

  • Michael Finch

    My thoughts exactly…this is a recurring issue for him. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Say the terrible things and get them out into public consciousness, but then deny that he actually said them. In both of these cases, his “explanation” is patently ridiculous, but now anyone who brings up these quotes gets silenced with “No, he explained it.”

  • aguilder

    Look Matt, I’m no huge fan of Rick Santorum. But, you’ve got to take a quote at face value; and I think it’s irresponsible to use a quote that could be interpreted the way Santorum claims it should be (i.e., giving him the benefit of the doubt), and suggest that’s not what he meant. “But of course, that’s not what he was doing” is a judgment on your part. If he’s made all sorts of similar quotes, then use one of those, not this one. Because, with regard to this quote, I think he’s absolutely right to say, “Read the quote!” Honestly, I think that such an interpretation on your part detracts from your effectiveness as a political commentator.

    I’m only going by the text you have above. “That’s not to pick on homosexuality. It’s not [i.e., homosexuality is not, the word "it" generally referring to the noun immediately prior], you know, man on child, man on dog ….” Does this really sound to you like he’s making a comparison to pedophilia or bestiality? Do you think he’d be so blatant about making such a comparison? I’m sorry, but such an interpretation would make Santorum sound completely ridiculous, and so your interpretation (in my opinion) is plainly wrong. But again, I’m not reading the quote within context, so maybe I’m wrong.

  • http://thewheatandchaff.com Matt Bieber

    Thanks for your thoughts, aguilder. I’d encourage you to read the whole interview (linked above) – there, you’ll see that he repeatedly lumps all kinds of non-heterosexual practices together. 

    Also, if you believe the ‘it’ refers to ‘homosexuality’, then how do you make sense of the last sentence of the quote?

  • http://thewheatandchaff.com Matt Bieber

    A couple more thoughts on this. 

    It’s worth adding that the next sentence in the interview is, “And when you destroy that you have a dramatic impact on the quality —” In this sentence, ‘that’ has to refer to ‘the definition of marriage’ – it makes no sense if it refers to ‘homosexuality’. (So even if we’re unsure of the meaning of the preceding sentence, this one is quite clear.)

    It might also be worth noting that Santorum hasn’t said how his view differs from the way it has been portrayed (at least as far as I’m aware). If he thinks homosexuality isn’t morally equivalent to bestiality or pedophilia, it would have been easy to say so in the interview quoted above (or anywhere else).

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OD6LVR4BV46ZYRWCJCPCX2XVSE Jenai

    I beg to differ with your understanding of english grammer.

    “In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. (First statement. The subject is marraige.) “That’s not to pick on homosexuality”. (Clarification. The subject is homosexuality). “It’s not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be.” (Grammarically, this -must- refer to the clarification, not to the first statement, otherwise it makes no sense. To refer to marraige, he would have also had to replace ‘It’ with ‘marraige’, as he introduced a new noun in the clarification). “It is one thing.” (Again, referring to the clarified thought. This is a logical clarification that homosexuality is distinct from bestiality or pedophilia. His last phrase could have been stronger, perhaps “They are seperate things”; his use of the singular “It”, however, makes it clear that he is again saying that homosexuality is one distinct thing separate from the others on the list.Using it to say he is “linking” homosexuality, bestiality, and pedophilia is directly opposite the intent of his statement.

    However, even if he -had- been linking the two, he would have grounds from a scientific standpoint. I would recommend an article in Scientific American by Jesse Bering (he’s a homosexual, if you are worried about bias), entitled “Animal Lovers: Zoophiles Make Scientists Rethink Human Sexuality” from March 24th, 2010.Behavior genetic studies in general also support the link. Ethically, as the above scientist mentions, there is a difference perhaps – but as low heritable sexual persuasions wherin a person cannot find sexual satisfaction with a human of the opposite gender of appropriate age, zoophilia, pedophila, and homosexuality have about the same genetic and environmental factors involved. As such, it is not a misnomer to link them in some instances, but whether it will augments or detract from the argument depends on the point trying to be made.If it was a discussion on ‘civil rights’, then it would be apt, as they are all minority groups with similar heritable conditions. Therefore, if a special right is granted to one group, the other groups would have a case that their rights were being ignored.If it was a discussion on legality or morality, however, it is not a link that would be as valuable to bring up, as there are possible ethical distinctions between the groups.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OD6LVR4BV46ZYRWCJCPCX2XVSE Jenai

    It is -the- last sentence in the paragraph, which would mean he needed to refer back to his primary point (marraige), not one of his sub-points. The first sentence in the paragraph is on marraige as a bond between man and woman.

    It is much like a mini-argument, with the first phrase (marraige as a bond) his thesis and the last (when you destroy -) his concluding argument. Everything else (society based on the future of society, marraige never including homosexuality, his rabbit trail distinguishing homosexuality from bestiality and pedophilia) were supporting arguments or subtopics.

    Looking at the paragraph before, he is arguing that the Suprmee Court extending ‘rights’ to people in the name of privacy has a detrimental affect on society, and names a list of rights. He follows this same argument thread throughout the interview while discussing the artificial right to privacy. His point is that more and more ‘rights’ are being granted under it (not that every ‘right’, such as polygamy or abortion or adultery, are “the same”).

    (He is also quite correct that the Supreme Court should not be involved; the Supreme Court -has never had- jurisdiction to make laws, only render opinions).

    It is clear fromt he interview that, as he said, he was -not- trying to pick on homosexuality, or group all the things he was mentioning together as equal in type or severity, but rather use each of them as examples of the different ‘rights’ that were being granded by judicial fiat.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OD6LVR4BV46ZYRWCJCPCX2XVSE Jenai

    Have you listened to the actual video clip? He -didn’t- say black people. I listened about 7 times when that story came out trying to catch any sort of a K sound. (And the vowel sound was “I” not “ah”). Did you notice that most of the reports/news articles after the event did -not- include the clip?

    It would have been out of place given his speech as well, so it really seems like yet another case of a manufactured scenario.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/did-rick-santorum-really-talk-about-making-%E2%80%98black-people%E2%80%99s-lives-better%E2%80%99-with-%E2%80%98somebody-else%E2%80%99s-money%E2%80%99/

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